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Elisabeth Condon特别访谈Pt.1:毕蓉蓉

2014/12/18

Elisabeth Condon是纽约的艺术家,也是南弗罗里达大学的教授。在今年上海Swatch驻留的半年期间,Elisabeth申请了对国内青年艺术家访谈的专项赞助,挑选了5位比较活跃且有代表性的80后中国艺术家:毕蓉蓉,高磊,卢征远,王欣和赵一浅。Elisabeth走访他们的工作室进行了深入的访谈,以期了解当代艺术和当代艺术家在中国的新的发展状态。

前言

《我这一代:中国青年艺术家》群展(*注1)聚焦文革后出生的第一代独生子女中国艺术家;此外,在过去20年中,凯伦·史密斯(Karen Smith)、理查德·怀恩(Richard Vine)和汉斯·乌尔里希·奥布里斯特(Hans Ulrich Obrist)等人与中国艺术家进行了一系列坦诚而深刻的访谈。这些都成为我的灵感之源,激发我想去五位80后艺术家的工作室看一看,了解他们的美学理念、创作方法、以及对艺术的社会功用的看法。

自1980年以来,中国的社会变革带来了一系列新的教育举措,国际旅行规模空前, 世界对于中国这个文明古国的影响达到了史无前例的程度。日常生活与哲学、艺术传统的融合引起了每个艺术家极大的兴趣。王欣是一名催眠师,擅长制造群体互动机制;卢征远运用多变的风格来找寻未知世界的不安定感;赵一浅将画笔的笔触看做冥想意识的再现,赋予空间和造型以生命力;高磊通过深入的研究和强迫性技法,呈现控制与释放的循环往复;毕蓉蓉通过对自然和建筑空间的交叠,激活不同环境之间的关系。

毕蓉蓉、高磊、卢征远、王欣和赵一浅都在大城市工作和生活;他们会出国旅行,并在世界各地的博物馆和美术馆举行展览。毕蓉蓉常驻上海,曾就读于荷兰Frank Mohr学院。王欣也常驻上海,获得芝加哥艺术学院(SAIC)艺术硕士学位;高磊、卢征远和赵一浅都住在北京,获得中央美术学院的研究生学位。(*注2)他们都不是土生土长的北京人或上海人。毕蓉蓉出生于宁波;高磊出生于湖南;卢征远出生于大连;赵一浅也是东北人,出生于沈阳;王欣出生于宜昌。

在以下访谈中,每个艺术家都回答了有关作品的问题——作品的主题、制作过程,以及背后的哲学思考和历史。他们的生活面临着所有艺术家都需要面对的重要问题:如何分配工作室时间和策展、撰文、教学时间;工作室空间偏好;以及各自艺术发展的背景等。在访谈之初,我设想的是一个相对正式的研究,但每个艺术家独特的回答使之成为一个没有总结和分类的开放式报告。我保留了访谈的问答形式,这样每个读者都能自己去发现新一代中国艺术家。

—— Elisabeth Condon

注:1、波拉克策划的本次展览选择了1976年后出生的艺术家。在2014年8月4日网络版《美国艺术》里记录的与理查德·怀恩的访谈中,波拉克将这些艺术家的态度归结为有国际视野、个人主义、对传统手法或题材兴趣寥寥,更关注能够更好地适应这个时代的新媒体和隐喻手法。(http://www.artinamericamagazine.com/news-features/interviews/talkin-bout-a-new-generation-of-chinese-artists/)

2、根据维基百科,中央美院作为中国最有名的艺术学校,申请拒绝率高达90%。(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Central_Academy_of_Fine_Arts)

毕蓉蓉,2014年8月12日,Skype访谈

毕蓉蓉,《时间的灰度》,墙面丙烯、遮光帘丙烯,画廊尺寸:12m x 4.08 m,沪申画廊,上海,2014 (摄影:郭波)

就在毕蓉蓉从曼彻斯特华人当代艺术中心与我Skype联系前,她收到了好友Kie Ellens(*注1) 的邮件,其中提到了他对毕蓉蓉2014年的两件装置作品《时间的灰度》和《阴影的形体》的评价。Ellens刚从柏林Hedjuk塔返回,他把自己从那个空间获得的经验融入对毕蓉蓉作品的评价中,对此毕蓉蓉的描述如下。

Kie Ellens是“墙屋”(Wall House)的负责人。这座建筑由John Hejduk担任设计,保持了楼房的样貌,用来给艺术家开展驻地项目。Erwin Wurm之前在“墙屋”举办了一次很棒的展览,Coco Rosie也曾在那里进行驻地创作。“墙屋”会邀请优秀艺术家前来创作,并与公众共享这座建筑。所以他提到了这座建筑。

Kie说我唯一的敌人就是“美”。他写道:“……(在《时间的灰度》中)你借助于‘光’。这里,你依然聆听光,我觉得你完全可以与它对话。”这是个非常强有力的问题。作品、环境和我自己——它们之间的关系是我要面临的一个重要问题。

《时间的灰度》乍看之下像一幅卷轴,其中出现的自然景观与外滩的背景相映成辉。重叠的图像引出了关于时间的问题,以及时间在你作品中的角色

在制作《时间的灰度》时,我在森林里拍了一些照片,所以它其实是直接取自森林的现实图像。我把图像描摹嫁接到了面向外滩的窗户上。

在《时间的灰度》中,我想表达在不同的时间中,灰度亦会变化。在森林中,许多风景层叠交织,你会看到不同的灰色。当灰色聚集,纯色便不复存在。随着时间的推移,从白昼到黑夜,灰色一直在变化。

选择这些窗户来安置我的风景,内部与外部光线交叠,随着时间的变化,色彩随之而变。我用了非常纯粹的颜色,几乎是荧光绿,但它又从不是纯粹的,总是随着时间在不同的灰度间微妙变化。开始画画前,一切都很清晰,因为一切都在我的脑海里。画完后,我可以看到颜色随着时间而变化。白天,遮光帘上的颜色比墙面上的强烈;傍晚而后,情况则恰恰相反。只有在全部完成后,我才得见作品的全貌,这非常有意思。

毕蓉蓉,《阴影的形体》,螺纹钢、油漆,40m(长) x 3.1m(高) x 4.5m(宽),四方当代艺术湖区,南京,2014 (摄影:郭波)

你的网站上有一篇你与李振华2013年的对谈《一些有明暗的小木条》,其中对南京的这件装置作品进行了详述,不难想象反射着光的颜色和随着光而变化的阴影

南京的这件作品《阴影的形体》受到空间的限制:那里不是展览空间,而是日常生活空间。走廊旁是会议室,人们进进出出参加会议;功能与博物馆不同,在博物馆,参观者会更谨慎地对待如何移步、向哪里移步等问题。因为目的很实际,因此在处理结构的时候我必须非常小心。我觉得钢制线条可以更“野”一些,遍布各处,但又必须考虑防火门和灭火器。这正是他(Kie)所说的作品让他看到我在“读”空间,作品很有力,同时又不乏谨慎。他很尖锐(笑),总能说到点子上。从图片上看,我觉得它显得太平面了。但当你来到现场,因为尺寸或外部光线的因素,作品的感觉会比图片中更丰富。

注:

1、荷兰Frank Mohr学院访问艺术家/策展人。Frank Mohr学院是毕蓉蓉的毕业院校。

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自2011年《工作室开放》项目以来,你越来越多地开始创作装置,“建立绘画和装置的关系、色彩和空间的关系、作品与环境的关系”。(*注1)这一轨迹在2014年的装置中达到顶点,“将自然光结合于作品之中,在视觉上,为我的作品融入新的层次”。你有自己的工作室吗?喜欢什么样的工作空间?

目前在驻地期间我有一个工作室,但在上海我只有一个起居室,没有独立的工作室。原因之一在于除了做具体的项目,平时我不愿意每天花大量时间在往返途上。在家工作很方便。做小作品的时候,我不需要很大的工作空间。如果有工作室,比如现在驻地提供给我的这个,我也很喜欢。但没有我也毫不介意,因为我可以在屏幕上工作,利用电脑制图、或者做些纸上绘画。任何地方都可以画画,它是生活的一部分。我不要求拥有一个巨大的工作室。不过临时工作室(开展各种具体项目)非常重要。每次我在开展现场工作之前,都会先去看一下环境,考虑作品的位置。我会根据地点来考虑自己想做什么类型的作品,所以通常我把现场当做我的临时工作室。以南京为例,我先在工作室的电脑上进行了创作,但到现场后我觉得原先的想法不太合适。我直接在现场做了一个新模型。当置身于空间内,我能更直观准确地感受空间的维度。

毕蓉蓉,《重新遇见的风景》,地面丙烯、纸本水彩、纸本激光切割,视界艺术中心,上海,2013 (摄影:郭波)

Kie在邮件里提到《重新遇见的风景》(2013)“颜色大于字母”。颜色在字母底下徜徉,又受到字母轮廓的限制。

起初我想给(《重新遇见的风景》)每一幅都取一个名字。但因为我是在空间里现场创作的,最终这个空间成为一个整体,每一幅都变成了整体的一部分。所以最后展览名成了每件作品的名字。我画中的颜色进入标题里,所以Kie会说“颜色大于字母”。这种联系性有时很难从照片上看出来。展览现场图与真正的现场还是有很大的区别。

毕蓉蓉,《虚拟工作室 I》&《虚拟工作室 II》,布面油画,30 x 40 cm,35x45cm, 2014(摄影:郭波)

你从西南师范大学和四川大学分别获得中国画艺术学士和硕士学位,然后前往荷兰Frank Mohr学院就读研究生课程。你在四川时期创作的水墨画体现了对于中国水墨的深入研究,而到欧洲后,你开始创作图案明亮的小型油画,类似《虚拟工作室I》和《虚拟工作室II》(2014)。这些小型画作可以看作是内心空间或都市空间。能谈谈这种创作的转变吗?

其实,并不是我改变了技法或工作(方式),我也没有放弃水墨画而转投其他绘画方法。我的本科和硕士课程分别在重庆和成都完成,都是中国画专业,那时我们需要大量写生。写生与水墨画同等重要。或许,读书期间我并没有找到合适的方式。写生时你可以画下自己所看见的;但回到工作室开始画水墨时,我会更多地考虑水墨的条条框框而忽视对自然的体验。所以,写生与工作室创作非常不同。当时,这一转化是我学习中最大的难题。现在我依然感到非常困难。到荷兰后,我会出去走走,看看这座城市,看看这里的风景和街景,看看泊船的港湾。我以城市和大自然为对象画了一些素描。画的方式与之前完全一致,试图在工作室外创作绘画。但回到工作室后,我不需要再把它们转化为水墨画。在四川时,作为中国画专业的学生,我必须完成这个步骤;但在荷兰,我不需要这么做,不需要创作某一特定类型的绘画。当然,我还是可以那么做,但是随心所欲的创作让我体验到了自由的感觉。因此,在研讨班里第一次展示了我的素描作品。过去,这些素描或许只是未完成的作品、或过程的一部分,而不是最终的成品。但在荷兰,这些变成了最终作品。素描作为作品被展出,不是吗?这其实给了我更多自信。我终于有作品了!(笑)

但作品的呈现变成了新问题,因为我还是没有把它们看做完成的作品,而仅仅是创作过程的一个环节。当你在全新的环境中做着熟悉的事情,新的人、新的体验会引发新的问题。同学和老师会提出一些你从未想到过的问题。所以,产生了(诸如)如何呈现这些素描的新问题。事实上,这个问题与如何把素描转化为水墨画有共通之处。

下一个步骤听起来很耳熟,但又有所不同:转化。我可以自由地尝试不同的方法。例如,我把(素描)转移到透明玻璃上,把它们一层一层叠起来、在墙上放大,就好像我个人网站上的那些绘画。它们变成了彩色板,有一些色彩块面。在与尺幅和颜色做游戏的过程中,我获得了不一样的能量,就好像水墨与素描两者间蕴含着不同的能量。当我对素描进行转化的时候,色彩具有丰富的实验可能性,所以我做了很多尝试。我并不是说彩绘与水墨画截然不同——这是一种转化素描的新的实验方法。

传统上来说,水墨画是关于隐逸、冥想,并最终通过地点的升华转化为梦想世界。你的作品颠覆了这一内向型轨迹,把素描转化为面向外部世界;通过素描,艺术家似乎变成了工具,把作品推向处于外向型转化中的世界。

写生是让你融入自然的过程。你感受着自然、感受着这个地方,用自己的方式与它们进行交流;但在工作室里,你更独立,与积极活泼的体验更隔膜。因此,对我来说,把这些体验带回工作室、或带回我开展创作的地方,这非常重要,不是吗?我喜欢融入环境中。融入环境让我更能感到自己的存在。做展览时,我也意识到这种存在。因此我非常在意展览的空间。有时,我可以不选择白盒子空间。我喜欢更贴近日常生活的空间。我的素描来自现实,所以我想回到现实。在这一过程中,我试图寻找素描的新现实,因此,过程具有至关重要的意义。

自荷兰时期起,当我开始对环境和空间做实验,越来越多的新话题涌现出来。以前我从未想过做公共艺术,也没有真正观察过建筑,但(随着作品的发展)我开始对建筑产生了浓厚的兴趣。新的兴趣正是来自新的实验。

风景、自然、建筑——还有哪些因素对你产生了影响?

奥拉维尔·埃利亚松(Olafur Eliasson)是我的榜样。我觉得他的作品是非常优秀的公共艺术,赋予人们变革的力量。未来,这也是我的艺术理想状态。

你是怎么决定要成为一名艺术家的?说说你的教育经历。

我的祖父写得一手好字,最早,我跟他学写字、学书法。我从小由祖父带大,经常练书法,对书法很有兴趣,写的也不错。童年的经历确实会对未来产生很大的影响。小学兴趣课我总是选书法和水墨。这两者是互相联系的。我学得很快,挥笔泼墨让我觉得很有乐趣。我从未停止学习或练习。高中时,我选修了美术。老师觉得我很适合考艺校,就鼓励我报考。为准备考试,我又继续学习。最后,我考入了大学艺术专业。一切水到渠成。

大学期间,关于传统中国画我需要学习的太多的。直到毕业我还是觉得自己所学远远不足。研究生阶段我选了山水画专业。山水让我着迷,所以我一路坚持。我对自己的专业充满兴趣,但同时也觉得自己不够出色。(笑)研究生课程让我颇感压力;我觉得无法自由地实践自己的想法。我想换一个不同的环境继续发展,解决我所面临的困难。于是我申请了荷兰的院校。申请的决定做得很快。在荷兰,我觉得充满可能性,需要很多时间来实验这些可能性。毕业后我回到国内——对我来说,一切才刚刚起步。在荷兰的两年学习时间很短暂,与我的艺术学习经历相比,两年太短了,我没有足够的时间去了解西方艺术。因此,我现在还是持续申请各种驻地项目。

在2013年与李振华的对谈中,(*注2)你提到在中国当前语境下,创作是一项艰巨的工作;而在西方,就会变得比较快乐和享受。

其实这句话是针对国画专业所说的,那里把学生当做“国画画家”来培养。在这种情况下,学生必须专注于某些材质和形式。此外,中国画拥有数千年的悠久历史,高度成熟,很难在其中发现自我;它太有力量了!因此它变得沉重而艰涩。中国画较少考虑实验,更多地是关于精神体验。

接着,我想问你一些日常生活的实际问题。艺术家如何谋生?

我在上海视觉艺术学院有份兼职工作。刚毕业时,头几个月我找了份兼职老师的工作。我很清楚自己,我不想要全职工作,因为我想留出更多时间给我的艺术创作。我会找些兼职。当然,这会让生活变得比较艰难。但我对自己的环境感到很高兴。学校是个好地方,与学生交流并分享我的经验,这一切都很好。

同时还要抽出时间创作?

我会减少社交。(笑)如果只是我一个人,时间是够的。但如果我花很多时间见朋友,我就会觉得不那么淡定,会感到压力和罪恶感。(笑)自己一个人的时候我会浪费很多时间;对我来说,浪费些时间无所事事,然后当我开始做的时候,我会非常投入,非常努力地工作。一个人独自浪费些时间是很重要的。

自己的身份究竟是中国艺术家还是全球艺术家,这会成为你作品的主题吗?

我是中国人!(笑)无疑,我是中国艺术家。我觉得我更多地是在努力做自己,而不是表达自己是中国艺术家还是全球艺术家。自我身份是自然而然的事情。以前的经历会一直伴随着你,就好像我的长期国画学习经历,即使有时它似乎隐而不见,但它总会自然地流露出来。我所不断学习、尝试的新事物都会融会贯通。我不知道用英语该怎么说,一切都会混合在一起,融合起来。没错,一切都很自然。我不需要花很大地力气说明自己是从哪里来的,我相信大家最后都会看出来

注:1、《工作室开放》,毕蓉蓉,2011 (http://www.birongrong.com/work/category/49.html)

2、《一些有明暗的小木条:李振华和毕蓉蓉的对谈笔记》,Vanguard 画廊,邬晨云译,Thomas C. Chung

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访谈原文

Just before Skyping from an artist residency at the Center for Chinese Contemporary Art (CFCCA), in Manchester, UK, Bi Rongrong received an email from her friend Kie Ellens Visiting artist and curator at the Frank Mohr Institute, Holland, where Bi attended graduate school.] with feedback about recent work including the 2014 installations “Moving Greyscale” and “A Tangible Shadow.” Ellens had just returned from a stay in the Hedjuk Tower in Berlin and applied his experience of that space to his comments about Bi’s work, which she speaks about below.

Kie Ellens is the Director of Wall House, an architecture designed by John Hejduk. Wall House both maintains the building and invites artists to residencies. Erwin Wurm had a great exhibition in the Wall House, and Coco Rosie did a residency there. It is a place to invite good artists and share the building to the public. That’s why he is mentioning this building.

Kie said that my only enemy is beauty. He wrote, “…in [Moving Greyscale] you allowed ‘Light’ to help me. Also here you are still listening to light and I see no reason why you could not talk back.” It is a strong question. The work, the environment, and me--what’s between them is a big question for me.

The image in Moving Greyscale at first glance, could be from a scroll, but is clearly a natural environment that is beautiful with the work’s Bund backdrop. The overlapping images evoke the question of time and the role it plays in your work.

For Moving Greyscale I took pictures in a forest, so it’s a very realistic image directly from the forest. I traced it on to the windows in front of the Bund.

The title in Chinese is The Greyness of the Time. In this piece I want to say that in different times, the grey changes. In the forest many landscapes layer together, and you see many different kinds of grey. When the greys come together, there is no pure color left. Over time the grey is always changing from day to night.

So I chose these windows to place my landscape, when it layers with the lights from outside and inside, with the changing of the time, the colors. I actually used a very pure color, almost fluorescent green, but it never goes pure, it always subtly changes between different greys with the time. Before I start to paint, it was not so clear because it was just in my mind. After I finished I was able to see the changing of the colors with the time. During the day, the window shades are stronger than the walls and after sunset, it’s opposite. I saw it in its entirety after finishing it, which is interesting.

The Nanjing installation expands on the title, Little Wood Sticks Featuring Light and Shade, a 2013 dialog between Bi Rongrong and Li Zhang available on your website. It is easy to imagine the color reflecting the light and the shadows of their shapes moving with the light over time.
A Tangible Shadow, the piece in Nanjing, was quite limited by the space, which is not an exhibition space but one for daily life. Beside the corridor there are meeting rooms. People go inside and out a lot to attend meetings; the function differs from a museum where visitors would be more careful about how and where they move. As the purpose is more practical, I had to be very careful with the structure. I thought the steel lines should go a bit more crazy, go everywhere, but there are fire doors and fire extinguishers to consider. It’s exactly how he [Kie] mentioned how it tells him I was ‘reading’ the space, that the work is strong but also a little bit careful. He’s so sharp (laughs) and he can always tell. But I also think in the pictures it looks flatter. In real life when you go there, maybe because of the size and also the light from outside, it gives more than in the picture.

You have increasingly worked with installation since the 2011 open studio, which “built relationships between paintings and installations, colors and spaces, works and environment.” Beginning a trajectory that culminates in the 2014 installations, you “ combined natural lights with the studio,” so that “visually, the piece would change with the difference of natural lights.” Do you have a studio now? What are your preferences for working space?
For the moment, at the residency I have a studio, but in Shanghai I have a living room. I don’t have a separate studio. One reason is that for daily work, except specific projects, I don’t like to spend lots of energy going all the way and back. I can easily work at home. For small works, I don’t need a big space to work in. If there’s a studio, like at the residency right now, I like it, but if I don’t have one I don’t mind because I can work on the screen, use drawing programs on the computer or do some drawings on paper. Drawings you can do anywhere, it can be a part of daily life. So I don’t demand a big studio. But a temporary studio, [where I work on specific projects], is very important. Each time I start to work on a site, I go there first to take a look and think about where I want to place my work, and because of the place, I start to think what kind of work I’m going to do, so usually I take the site as my temporary studio. For example in Nanjing, I first worked in the studio on the computer but when I arrived on the site, what I did before was not really suitable. I made a new model directly in the space, because when I am inside of it, I feel the dimension more correctly.

In his email, Kie mentions that in The Landscapes We Used To Know (2013) “the colors are larger than the letters.” Color passes beneath the characters at a scale confined by the contours of the characters.

In the beginning I thought that each piece [in The Landscapes We Used To Know] would have a title. But since I was working in the space, eventually the whole space became one piece so that each piece became a process within the whole. That’s why there is finally just one title for the exhibition, which is also the title for each piece. The color from my paintings came into the title and that’s why Kie said, ‘the colors are larger than the letters’. These connections are sometimes hard to see in the photos. The photos of the show are very different from when you are actually there.

You received a BFA and MFA in Chinese painting in Sichuan universities before attending a second graduate program at the Frank Mohr Institute in the Netherlands. While the ink paintings from Sichuan reflect intensive study of Chinese ink painting, in Europe you began to make small, brightly patterned oil paintings similar to Virtual Studio I and Virtual Studio II, 2014. These small paintings can be seen as either interior or urban spaces. Can you talk about this transition in your work?
Actually, it’s not like I changed my skills or work [methods], or gave up wash ink for a different way of painting. In Sichuan, where I studied in two universities, Chongqing and Chengdu, in Chinese painting classes, we needed to do lots of sketching from nature. Wash ink is one part, sketching from nature is an equally important part. Maybe I hadn’t found a way yet when I was studying there. When you sketch from nature you really can draw what you see, but when I went back to the studio to start wash ink paintings, my mind was more fixed on the wash ink rules than what I experienced in nature. So, there was a big difference between the sketch from life and the studio work. In that time this transformation was the most difficult part of my studies. It is still difficult.

In Holland, at the very beginning I’d go out to see the city, to see the landscape and cityscape, to the harbor to draw ships. I did quite a few sketches from the city and from nature as well. These sketches, how I did them, was exactly the same as in previous studies, trying to develop drawings from outside the studio. Back in the studio, I actually didn’t need to transform them into washed ink paintings. In Sichuan, as a Chinese painting department student, I had to complete the next step, but in Holland, I didn’t really need to do the step or make a specific type of painting. I could have done it, but I felt free in that I could do whatever I wanted, so the first step then became showing my drawings in the seminar.

So the drawings were, in the past, maybe just unfinished or part of the process, not the final work. But in Holland it could be already a finished work, just show the drawing, right? So it actually gave me a bit more confidence already. I have some works finally! [laughs]

But presenting these works became a new question, because I still didn’t treat them as finished work but as process. When one arrives in a new environment and does something familiar, it raises new questions because of new people, new experiences; classmates or teachers might question something about which you had never been questioned. So new questions, [such as] how to present these drawings, arose. Actually, the question is similar to that of how to transform drawings into washed ink paintings.

The next step was similar but a bit different: transformation. It became liberating to test different methods. For example I transferred [drawings] on to transparent glass and layered them together, and enlarged them, like the paintings on my website, on to the walls. They also become colored panels with some parts filled with color. When I played with scale and colors, I got a different energy in the same way that wash ink is a different energy from drawing. When I transformed the drawing, color was a big possibility for experimentation, so I tried many things. It’s not like a color painting is totally different from washed ink paintings—it’s just one of the ways to experiment how to transfer my drawings.

Ink painting, traditionally, is about retreat, contemplation, and ultimately transformation through the sublimation of location into a dream world. Your work inverts this inward trajectory, transforming drawing toward the outside world, as if through drawing the artist becomes an instrument dispersing the work into the world in a transformation that flows outward.
I think drawing from nature is a process in which you become a part of nature. You experience the nature and places, and talk with them with your own way. But in the studio you are more separate; you are more isolated from that very active and live experience. So for me bringing those experiences back to the studio, or where I work is important, right? I enjoy being a part of the environment. I can feel more that I exist there, being a part of it. So when doing exhibitions, I am also aware of this kind of existence. That’s why I really make consideration of the exhibition space. Sometimes I don’t choose a white cube space. I like to choose a space closer to a daily life space. My drawings were from a reality, so I want to be back in a reality. The process is one of looking for a new reality for my drawings, so the process is very important.

Since Holland, when I started to experiment with the environment and space, more and more new topics came up. In the past I never considered public art, nor did I really look at architecture, but [as the work develops] I’ve become really interested in architecture. New interests result from experimentation.

Landscape, nature and architecture—any other influences?
Olafur Eliasson is a role model. I think of his work as good public art, offering people transformative power. It is the ideal situation for my art too, in the future.

How did you decide to become an artist? What was your educational background?
At the very beginning when I learned to write characters, I learned calligraphy from my grandpa, who is really good at that. Since I grew up with my grandpa I did lots of calligraphy practice and was quite interested and skillful with that. What you learn in childhood can really influence you lots later. In primary school for the electives, I always chose calligraphy or washed ink painting. These two are related. I learned fast and had fun playing with brushes. I never stopped learning it, or practicing it. In high school, I chose fine art as my elective. The teacher found I was quite suitable for art college, encouraged me, and I studied further for the exam. Finally I attended the art department in a university. It was just natural to go this way.

In the university there were so many things about traditional Chinese painting I needed to learn. Until graduating, I felt I was still far away from getting somewhere. I went on to do a masters program with landscape, or maybe I should say water and mountain painting, as my major. Landscape was always fascinating to me, so I kept going. I was interested, but I also felt I wasn’t good enough. [laughs] In the masters program I got a bit stressed; I felt not so free to deal with my ideas. I wanted a different environment to keep developing, to keep solving my difficulties. I applied for schools in Holland. It was a quick decision to do an application. In Holland, I felt that there are so many possibilities and I need so much time to experiment with them. After graduation I returned to China—for me, it was just a beginning. Two years’ study in Holland was too short. Compared to my whole art study experience, two years was very short and it was not enough time for me to see the art in the West. That’s why I keep applying for residencies now.

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In a 2013 dialog with Li Zhenhua,you observed that in the current context of China to produce a work seemed a grave task, while in the West it would become something pleasant and enjoyable.
Actually the context for this comment was the Chinese Painting department, which assigned students the role of ‘Chinese Painting painter.’ In this role you must focus on certain material and forms. Plus, Chinese painting has been developed for thousands of years, it’s so mature, and it becomes very difficult to find yourself in it; it is too powerful! So that’s why it becomes so heavy and difficult. I guess it’s less about experimenting, instead it’s more about spiritual experiencing.

Now a few practical questions about daily life. How does an artist survive?

I have a part-time job at Shanghai Visual Art Institute, and when I graduated, in the first months I got a part-time teaching job. I was quite clear with myself that I don’t want a full-time job because I want more time for my art. So I looked for something part-time. Of course, it makes living more difficult, you know. But I am quite happy with this situation. The school is a nice place to be, to communicate with students and share my experience to the students, which is nice.

And make time to work?
I just try to do less social things. [laughs] If I am just by myself the time is enough. But if I spend lots time to meet friends, I would feel less calm, and then stressful and guilty. [laughs] By myself I like to waste lots of time because for me wasting time, doing nothing, then when I am doing something I can be REALLY focused and work toughly. It’s important to just waste time by yourself.

Is identity as a Chinese or global artist a topic in your works?
I am Chinese! [laughs] I am a Chinese artist, for sure. I think I am more trying to be ME, instead to express I am a Chinese artist or a global artist. I think who I am flows naturally. Experiences I had before will never leave me, like my long study of Chinese Painting, it will come out naturally though maybe for some time it’s hidden inside. And with new things I’m learning and training, it all comes together. I don’t know how to say in English, like it will be mixed. That integrates. So, yes, it’s quite natural. I don’t need to try hard to say where I come from, but I think people can tell eventually.

访谈注脚

毕蓉蓉是艺术家信托基金(APT)的成员。APT为全球甄选艺术家提供长期的财务保障及拓展全球视野,基于独特的财务模型。其拥有全球最大的当代艺术品收藏集合,由来自75个国家的2000位甄选艺术家的10000多件作品组成。了解更多请访问www.aptglobal.org 。2013年,APT创立了非营利组织APT Institute,来响应当代艺术家对于拓展国际视野及提升作品知名度的需求。通过各种创新举措促进APT艺术家及推广其作品,让来自全球艺术领域的专家和机构与APT的顶尖策展团队,当代艺术家及其作品互相交织,展开合作和互动。

本次采访主要由孔子新汉学计划的“理解中国”访问学者项目资助,这是第一次授予一位视觉艺术家。该项目的成立旨在帮助世界各国青年深入了解中国和中华文化,繁荣汉学研究,促进孔子学院可持续发展,增进中国与各国人民之间的友好关系。更多请访问:http://www.hanban.org

作者鸣谢

汉办孔子新汉学计划提供的“理解中国”访问学者研究金让这个项目能够最终实现。我非常感谢汉办副主任张科和汉学部的黄湄对项目的帮助。此外,还要特别感谢南京大学国学研究院主任、教授程爱民博士和南佛罗里达大学(坦帕)孔子学院院长史昆,如果没有他们的大力支持,这些访谈无法得以开展。

APT艺术家信托基金的Cherry朱琛和Austin 包子、Willow 叶梓、Maryam Britton、Marilyn Babb等人在艺术家的挑选、访谈翻译和转录环节提供了巨大帮助。

我还要向相关艺术家致以最深的谢意,他们慷慨拨冗接受了我对他们的采访。他们是:毕蓉蓉、高磊、卢征远、王欣、赵一浅。这些年轻艺术家共同组成了全新的中国艺术景观。

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